Men are struggling. That’s what Richard Reeves, president of the American Institute for Boys and Men, contends, pointing to the widespread mental health crisis men and boys are facing in developed countries, as suicide rates rise. Meanwhile, higher education enrollment for men is lower than ever, and historically male-dominated jobs like manufacturing and farming are disappearing. Reeves says we must acknowledge these problems in order to solve them, but maintains that helping men does not and should not come at the expense of women.

Dr. Barbara Risman, editor in chief of Gender & Society, says that we’re not grappling with a crisis of masculinity, but rather a socio-economic crisis that’s hurting working-class women and men—especially men of color. To fix this, she says we must create more economic support for these men, be it in jobs or education, and update our ideas of traditional gender roles. Listen to the Doha Debates Podcast as our guests debate what the future of masculinity should look like and how to help men and boys without getting trapped in the manosphere.

Doha Debates Podcast is a production of Doha Debates and FP Studios. This episode is hosted by Joshua Johnson.